1. I am leary of what may be turned lewd; it seems being gay or lesbian could be considered "lewd" by many of the people in a bible belt state which Missouri is. The "right" takes no pains to remind us being GBLT is immoral, by this the act of holding hands is lewd for us. I would like to know what the "lewd" act was as I can see a protest action could be started. oh yes founder of Lesbian Avengers Rochester NY Anyone want to go to am IHOP kiss in? billijo

Posted at 10:15PM on Mar 18th 2007 by billijo wolf

2. An IHOP Kiss-In? That would be awesome.

But put me on the list of people who would like to know what sort of 'affection' was happening in the IHOP. If it was something that heterosexuals would have been thrown out for doing, then it's not the same thing as being thrown out for being gay.

Posted at 8:53AM on Mar 19th 2007 by Charlotte Redman

3. Why shouldn't IHOP have the right to kick out whomever they want? This is not a government organization we're talking, it's a private business. If they don't want the business they shouldn't be forced to take it.

I'm as queer as the next guy, but Forced Tolerance is a joke.

Posted at 9:50AM on Mar 19th 2007 by kameron

4. Kameron: Are you suggesting that we repeal the Civil Rights legislation of the 1960s so that restaurants can return to the days "No Coloreds, no Jews, no dogs"?

Posted at 9:54AM on Mar 19th 2007 by Richard

5. I would like some sort of proof that the "kissing" that was done by these two women was somehow different that kissing by heterosexuals which would have been tolerated and caused no incident.

I'm really quite tired of people constantly using the excuse of "how do I explain this to my children". Why don't those people stop constantly asking themselves that question and figure out the answer.

Sooner or later they need to be able to explain it to their children, just like they explain anything else. Gyas are not going to disappear how ever much some people might like them to.

Both heteros and gays should be allowed to kiss, hug, hold hands etc in public without causing a stir. And, both heteros and gays should be held to the same (not different) standards of where to draw the line with public displays of affection.

I don't particularly enjoy walking in the mall and seeing a hetero couple walking in front of me with their hands in each others back pant's pockets. But, I don't call the cops or the mall management on them either.

Posted at 11:21AM on Mar 19th 2007 by anonymous

6. I hope this board will not mind a posting from IHOP Corp. and allow for futher clarification of what happened at this franchised location.

TIHOP is welcoming to all and this is not an issue of discrimination. This is one reason we have been successful for nearly 50 years. The guests were asked to refrain from bold displays of public affection as guests had found it offensive. They were not asked to leave, they were asked to refrain from bold displays which included open-mouthed kissing and caressing. They elected to leave the restaurant about 20 minutes after the request to refrain was made.

A hetrosexual couple exhibiting the same behavior would be asked to stop the displays of affection. We have had extensive conversations with the Manager on duty and the franchise owner of the restauant. These guests have visited many times in the past and are welcome to continue to visit IHOP.

It simply would not be good business, and it would be wrong, to ask someone to leave based on their sexual orientation. We are welcoming to all and this is one reason for our success.

Patrick Lenow
Director, Public Relations
IHOP Corp.

Posted at 12:01PM on Mar 19th 2007 by Patrick Lenow

7. The manager of the IHOP stated for the press that they were NOT discriminating against GLBT people; according to the manager, the restaurant does not allow 'sexual' acts of any kind; gay or straight. The manager stated the actions of the lesbians in the restaurant were 'lewd' (regardless of sexual orientation) and were an 'unacceptable form of behavior' in an IHOP facility. The manager stated "many gay people are in here all the time; eating like anyone else at their table, but they do not 'act-out' as these people did; that was the complaint, their 'acting-out', not their sexuality per se." Don't kill me, I am just the messenger.

PAT

Posted at 1:37PM on Mar 19th 2007 by Patrick Townson

8. This notice has gotten a lot of attention but let's not forget that others go unmentioned. A kiss-in sounds like fun but really plays to the haters. Businesses care about the bottom line so bad press is better. Long ago we had a problem w/Cracker Barrel and found that "tea-nights" were very effective. Gay people and friends would go in mass to a restaurant, get a table, and only order ice tea or coffee and sit for hours and talk. We tipped the waiters well but we kept the tables from turning so the restaurant couldn't sell food. Organize that every fri/sat night and you'll be recognized.

Posted at 3:39PM on Mar 19th 2007 by Glenn

9. Forced tolerance is a joke. Whats more of a joke here is the way this incident has been reported to the community. It is not uncommon for gay publications, magazines, websites, newspapers, or whatever to be extremely biased in their reports of incidents such as these. It is the same for any specialized publication. You want to appeal to the readers of the publication, so you slant the news to appease them. First of all, I think overtly sexual touching of any nature is inappropriate in public. Now coming from someone like me who has a philosophy of "if you don't like it, you can go away" that sounds odd, but in all honesty, there is a level of common courtesy that all people should understand and maintain. Even though we are all raised differently and end up with different sets of values and morals, we need to make society a comfortable place for everyone (within reason). Tight-assed people generally can never be pleased, so screw them. But for the normal, every day person, we just all need to calm down. Stop demanding your right to slobber all over each other's faces in a public restaurant, thats just disgusting. Go there to eat and take your face-sucking elsewhere. If you know it probably won't fly, why push the envelope? To make a statement? How about we all stop trying to make statements and start focusing on ourselves. I'm a big lesbian and I have no problem holding my girl's hand in public or anywhere else. But I do not grope her or try to swallow her head in front of people, it is just offensive, to anyone really. The only reason this is being made into a big deal is because the two people asked to stop were lesbians.

Posted at 6:57PM on Mar 19th 2007 by Cindy

10. If it's OK for hets to do it and nobody complain (which they wouldn't), then there's no reason that gay people can't do the same. Anything else is intolerant, immoral, and bigoted. The problem here is that all these Christohet Supremacists need to be socialized to gays showing affection and become used to it so that nobody has to hide in closets anymore like they'd love for us all to do.

Forced exposure is the only way to get social change in this case. They're not going to give us our basic and equal rights until we stand up and demand them.

They should have asked that waitress bitch at IHOP if she's ever heard the words "...with liberty and justice FOR ALL" anywhere, and then tell her to stick that in her ignorant, close-minded, intolerant, bigoted fat mouth of hers.

...And then go right back to showing the affection to each other that wouldn't even get noticed at all had they been breeders like the rest of the people in there.

Posted at 7:42PM on Mar 19th 2007 by Preston W.

11. It is frightening to know that teenagers can stick their tongues down each others throats in a public place with other teens that they barely know, and the worst they might get is dirty looks, but the lesbians or gay males in the next booth can be kicked out of an establishment for holding hands with their partner of 10-20-30 YEARS.

Don't get me wrong...I am not a huge fan of PDA in ANY case, I am a little old fashioned and think that there are certain things that should not be done in public, whether the couple is same sex or Hetero. But if a hetero couple can get away with making out and heavy "petting" in public, WHY can't a same sex couple hold hands?

I am in WA State, and thank goodness the Anti-discrimination laws have been passed. But it is just one small victory in a very long and bloody war.

Posted at 8:08PM on Mar 19th 2007 by Mela

12. I have to ask my self if this was really worth my time to read; is it really worth us getting all hot and bothered about. Sure, this could have happened like it's being reported, or since we have only heard one side, it could have happened somewhat differently and we're hearing embellished reports. To immediately conclude that both the quote from the store manager is authentically verbatim and that these ladies were asked to leave solely on the basis that they are lesbians is probably a bit premature. No one on the QS team was at this IHOP when this transpired, and likely hasn't even spoken directly to anyone who was. Why throw more fire on to the flame (pun intended) without first making a little more effort to get to the bottom of the situation? I'm not defending or admonishing anybody... just saying if I were an editor on this site I would not be publishing a story like this, where for the most part, I'm condeming the actions of another without knowing for certain that those actions transpired. Just a thought.

Posted at 6:41AM on Mar 20th 2007 by James Ranson

13. To messages #11 12 : while it is TRUE 'anything goes' for homosexual 'breeders' (as we sometimes call them) and that _should_ be okay for us, the fact is that we GLBT people _are_ under a wee bit more scrutiny right now; there are a lot of people around who frankly do not care one way or the other; just leave them alone to eat their own dinner, etc. I'd like to think that the 'average' small town heterosexual person found it very hard to find _anything_ to legitimatly (or illegitimaty) blame on us. Sure, there will be some for which downright bigotry and hatred is the way their little brains will function; but most small town Christians (for example)are no more bigotted than big city queers are necessarily promiscuous or running around like heathens all the time. I live in the small town of Independence, Kansas (population 8000) and am as gay as the day is long. Everyone who knows me knows that I am gay; that makes me a bit of a curiosity for many of them. Did you ever notice how so many, or most 'hate crimes' (toward GLBT folks) occur in big city 'more liberal' communities where gay people are generally freer to act as they wish with impunity? I am _NOT_ supporting 'hate crimes' nor encouraging them, but I am suggesting that folks in small towns have different sorts of mindsets.

To #5 ... I would appreciate some proof that teenage breeders going in to the same restaurant _would_ be tolerated?

To #3 ... You make very good points. If they do not want 'our' business, then I say, like you, 'fu-- 'em' take our business somewhere else.

It is odd how, for so long, many of us have dreamed for _full equality_ , full equal rights, etc (which also requires _full responsibility under the law_ for our behavior.) Yet, as that day, gradually, and slowly arrives, there are still GLBT folks who insist on behaving as they wish, and 'rubbing everyone elses nose in the mess'. Someone has to give something somewhere, here folks; try being the 'impeccable citizen' for a change. Gradually, many/most/ of the Bible Belt folks will come around to you.

http://gaynews.n3.net

PAT

Posted at 6:48AM on Mar 20th 2007 by Patrick Townson

14. James: The story as reported on this site is based on reports that appeared in the Kansas LGBT newspaper and on the local Fox News affiliate. And the facts about the law are simply fact.

Posted at 6:50AM on Mar 20th 2007 by Richard

15. WOW! That is disturbing that it was perfectly legal for them to toss them out of IHop!!

Posted at 7:21AM on Mar 20th 2007 by Michael

16. Mr. Lenow -
The story above says: One of the nice presumably heterosexual ladies dining at this fine establishment was profoundly disturbed by exchanges of affection between a group of lesbians at another table. She complained to the manager who, according to one of the affectionate lesbians approached the group and said, "It's just that we've had complaints, and it's unacceptable. And as a family restaurant, we don't accept that, and (we) don't accept you. I'm going to have to ask you to leave, and not return.'"

As you can see, the statement to the paper by the 'offending group' quotes your establishment manager as saying "I'm going to have to ask you to leave, and not return." You say: "They were not asked to leave, they were asked to refrain from bold displays which included open-mouthed kissing and caressing. They elected to leave the restaurant about 20 minutes after the request to refrain was made."

I see NOTHING that mentions 'open-mouthed kissing and caressing'. My question to you is, do you 'police' hetrosexual high school couple (for example) who might come in for a snack after a movie and share a kiss or hold hands? If not, then you franchise DID IN FACT DISCRIMINATE - AND you appear to be calling the group in question 'liars' by contradicting their direct statement.

Try to spin it any way you want but, by your own explaination, this was 'bad business' and 'wrong'.

Shame on you!

Posted at 10:09AM on Mar 20th 2007 by CA Blue

17. why can't we juz' let people B who they R. I won't be going 2 IFLOP anymore !This waz DISCRIMINATION !!!! 4 a " COUNTRY of " FREEDOM " many have still alot 2 learn!! " WE " ALL have the right 2 B ourselves!!

Posted at 12:37PM on Mar 25th 2007 by Leesa L,Denton